Attachment focused EMDR - Jackie Kono

Jackie Kono of Heart Whispers Healing joins us to discuss attachment focused EMDR. She tells us what EMDR is - how it is used to heal trauma and what the attachment focused branch can do for relational traumas. Jackie is also a holistic psychologist.

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If you have the power to heal and change your life, you might not have found it yet, but it's out there and it exists for you. Our intention is to have a little fun while introducing you to various new ways of healing. Welcome to the spill, ginger tea podcast. Hi, everybody. I'm Angel, Amy. I am a psychic medium and a life coach. I work with angels, spirit guides and loved ones in heaven. And I've just love everything and all things spiritual. Hi, I'm Lila, I began my healing journey looking for relief from physical pain. And I'm always willing to try something new to feel better and improve myself. We're going to be discussing alternative health techniques. So if you're looking to heal the physical, mental or spiritual parts of yourself, or if you're just curious about what to try, or what can help you live your best life. You're absolutely in the right place. So welcome. Today we have a very special guest. We will be talking with Jackie kono in she is a holistic psychotherapist. She has a private practice in which she is an EMDR practitioner among some other things. So Hi, Jackie. So nice to have you today. Hi, Angel. Amy. Hi, Lila. Hi, Jackie. Thanks so much for coming today. Would you like to start by telling us a little bit about yourself? Yes, I'd love to. So I My name is Jackie, like you said, and I have a private practice. Right now it's through telehealth. And I do love incorporating a lot of different energy modalities, including yoga, Emotional Freedom Technique, attachment focused EMDR. Other mindfulness practice is along with more Western based psychodynamic therapies and existential phenomenology, things like that. And I'd say that I'm very passionate about bringing them together and helping us get to a place where people are really able to see significant change in their own bodies and, and really heal, because I think that that we have the ability to do that. And yes, so I hear all those big words. And I'm like, Ooh, this is a juicy. She's like a master of the emotional component. And I've, I've had the pleasure of working with you. So I know that you are very, very gifted with the emotional component, because you're super intuitive. And some people get a little confused about the definition of clairvoyance. So we know Lila that clairvoyant people can see. And they usually can see outside, like normal space and time. But also to see the root of all things or see like the root in human behavior is also clairvoyance. And I know that you have really mastered that side of you. And I think it's super cool. Thank you. Yeah, I think that that is something that has continued to get developed. And in the work that I'm doing with clients, it's, it comes into hand, it comes in handy. So being able to understand the patterns that exist with people, when they walk in the door, and how they are in relationship to other people kind of which position they take in a relationship and in what that look like looks like and usually that can determine what types of conflicts that people are getting into what types of things that are causing them to get stuck in. That's where we go, we'll look there to help process emotion and help them get past these blocks that are showing up for them. Have you heard about this? Lila? I have not. You haven't heard about it at all. I know about it through some other healers. I have. I haven't done a session before. I haven't done EMDR yet. I'm curious about it, though. Yes. But you were telling me a story about 60 minutes? Yes. That EMDR the what I've heard about it, and what I saw in 60 minutes was Prince Harry doing or participating in EMDR and that that was something that he was using. I think he talked a lot about you know, childhood trauma. I don't know if that's the same Oh, yeah. EMD has gone right in there and getting that trauma Prince Harry. Oh, there's no no there's no trauma there. No. Right right Jack Why don't you go right in and get that trauma if someone Yeah, that's that's what is so exciting that you know, he opens up in discloses that just to break the stigma, I think so many people can benefit from this. And, and really the tools are here we have them. And people are really starting to learn, again that we do have the capacity to heal, our bodies are dying for it, people are starting to feel so many symptoms coming up and start coming to the surface, which is such a great sign. And once we start to pay attention to that and pay attention to the body, then we really can step into a totally new experience of our lives. So, so the EMDR that the attachment focused EMDR that you practice, is that different? Yeah. So there is there is EMDR and EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, is it started in the 90s. And it came about because this, I think she's a psychologist, Francine Shapiro, she recognized that when she experienced something, an emotional event, she was walking outside, and she noticed her eyes were moving back and forth. And it helped her process the trauma. Interesting. And so then she since then developed this this model called EMDR, with some other layers added to it. And then so basically what people would do is, if they had an incident that they experienced, like a car accident or some sort of event that occurred that left them feeling overstimulated, or basically at that moment, they didn't have the resources to process the emotion that was coming up. So they go into a state of fight flight. And then what happens after that is all of the emotion, the energy that didn't ever get to get processed out gets stored in the body. And so this is what is so amazing about our bodies is that we get it recognizes that wait a second, you're going through this event, we can't possibly process this right now we just need to get to safety. And when you know, after your nervous system settles down, then you can identify or locate what is remaining, because it'll show up in the form of, you know, a trigger or like a recurrent recurring, like a memory or something like that, that'll show up. It's so EMDR, in and of itself is going into those events that have happened, and just providing the space to process a motion that is stuck in the body. So I hear all this and I actually hang out with a scientist, we're quite a combo together. My sister in law is one of my best friends and she is a scientist. And so I would think that like a neuro scientist, or would would study this, no, has, like, you know, the study of the brain. So it what is this backed by science at all? Do we know? Absolutely. This is this is backed by science, for sure, it is one of the most evidence based practices that is around for processing trauma. So I mean, I happen to be very energetic in the work that I do. And also this this model is very much has a lot of research behind it so that you can easily research. You know, go to EMDR, emdria.com, EMDR, eye a.com and look up those different research methods. Yeah. So what is a typical session like? So I know, in the tapping session, I explained to people like you sit across from me, and you mirror me, as you repeat after me, as I say, different phrases and different feelings and emotions. While we tap, you tap on yourself, and I tap on mine. And but then there's an intuitive piece that I bring in psychic peace with it, to really feel the energetic body and lead the person into what they're ready to let go of. How is EMDR similar and different? Yeah, so So EMDR you know, I think what I will say because this is the one that I practice the most most is the attachment focused EMDR. And the the reason why it's called attachment focused is that people that come in with that haven't had luck processing, you know, some emotions and traumas from the past, they will come in to use the attachment focused EMDR because it helps to really get at the early conditioning. I know I'm kind of not answering fully, but I'll get there. Yeah, so it's okay, I'm following. So like, kind of like a rewiring. Yeah. So basically, just under that notion that from birth to age seven, we learn about who we are and how we are to be In the world, based, you know, from our primary caregivers, and we learn how to be in relationships, and whatever has occurred during that timeframe, then we, it can stay in the body, or we can develop beliefs about ourselves. And if there were any significant events that caused us to experience a traumatic event or traumatic situation, then like sadness, anger, regret, blame, shame, all of that you mean anything, that and then if there's a specific event, like a car accident or something, then that will add to it. And if that happens during the developmental period, birthdates, seven, it can stay in the body in a in a deeper way, basically, and affect the brain. And so, you know, there also can be situations where people feel, you know, just based on the personalities of the people in their household, they can assume a certain role, like maybe they're the burden in the family, they're the one that takes the responsibility for the family dynamic. And then they they continue to grow up feeling like they are a burden. So something even just like that, where they have all these like little instances that they might feel, have led themselves to believe that they are a burden. Like they're the way the dad yelled at them, or looked at them in a certain type of way. And then in their bodies, they experienced shame or so if that happens enough, then that can turn into a pattern. And EMDR can also be used for something like that. Okay. And so, like, what would I be if I called you to make an appointment? Like, what's the general thing people are are calling you about? What are they finding in their lives that they're reaching out to you? Yeah, so a few different things. So some people will come in and say, I'm really just looking to overcome these patterns that I can continue to find myself in, I'm feeling depressed and feeling anxious, I'm getting triggered a lot. In in. So I might say that EMDR could be really helpful for that. So they might not necessarily come in looking for EMDR. But because they're presenting in such a way that their body is signaling to them, it's ready to do some work. Basically, what we would do is use that modality as a way to understand and open up what is the trigger? What is the body's signaling to you how, how do we get to the root to understand what's really going on so that we can clear what's happening. So I recently started to work with a client that has extreme OCD, in she has an extreme fear of throwing up. And she really, really, really wanted to work with me in person, which I'm doing a lot on line right now. But the location in which she works provided us to meet. And so I have been working with her using it. When I've said tapping for those that don't know what it is. It's a motion Emotional Freedom Technique. But really, you know, it's it's similar but different than EMDR. But where I want to go with this is, is that when I leaned into her energy, and this is the thing that Jackie consents to, is, she had something attached to her. She had like a darker being. And so I asked her, if I was looking at me, talk to me, baby, talk to me. No, I just want to hear more. All right. Where am I making you uncomfortable? Okay. So I know this, I don't mean to scare people. But so listen, you're not all walking around with things attached to you. Let's just be real here. Is there any moment angels Laila to stubborn angels with big wings and their redheads go figure their gingers Lila? Love you. So, you know, she had a big demon beast. She really did. I'm sweating telling the story. And I just, you know, connected to her. We were outside we had no shoes on on the grass. And I started to just channel light all through her and really detached this thing in send a packing. And then we started to do the healing work. So she felt a lot better just from that before we even got into the wouldn't, right. Yeah, so have you had any experiences like this like cuz you're super connected to, I think not not like that I do, I definitely believe that there could be things energetically there that will keep people stuck where they just can't get out of that pattern where they need something different or they need like a blast of light like Amy is giving? For sure. Like, yeah. So, you know, I just think it's good to have all different avenues like all roads lead to Rome. And this is why I say it's a recipe. It's a special sauce, different people do different things. She's actually now seeing someone that does. I don't know, there's so many different modalities, but it has to do with neuroscience, and but she didn't call it EMDR. But when I looked it up, I was like, Oh, this is similar. Okay, so what drew you to EMDR? So I, it works. It works. It's it's, but you know, we're in practice doing other things before you started with that. Yeah, so I was doing traditional psychotherapy, and then incorporating some energy medicine techniques and doing a lot of tapping. So okay, any throughout my training, I've learned that there's been pieces that are missing in therapy sessions, in my own experience with therapy. Oh, yeah, it's, it's, it's like, where's the processing happening. And I didn't understand that throughout going through a whole program of undergrad and Master's program. In still when I work with clients that I have no tools, right, except for the ones that intuitively I already know from observing human observing the world. But my passion is in helping people process a motion, and amen. That is what EMDR helps with. Yeah, and because I have in an intuitive lens, I combine some other stuff with it, to make it very spiritual. And because of the way EMDR is set up the attachment focused EMDR, where basically, people come up, and I help them with this of resource team. So you come up with a resource team, where you might have a nurturing figure two nurturing figures, two wise figures, and two protective figures. And basically, what you would do is imagine who these people are individually. And then we do a form of bilateral stimulation, and bilateral stimulation. You know, when we do it through telehealth, we tend to just do the cross arms over the shoulders, and you tap one shoulder and tap the other shoulder. And so when you're I can explain to everyone if you're not coordinated like me, we can I make this happen. I'm doing it everybody. I have a following. Jackie has her hands crossed in front of her chest. So her right hand is tapping on her left, right below her shoulder. And the left hand is now on right below her right shoulder. And she's rotating. Right Yeah, so recently just bilateral stimulation, it's to stimulate the right brain and the left brain, it helps to open up emotion. So when you know if somebody is experiencing something, the trauma gets stored in the body in fragmented form, which is stored on one side of the brain. So when we're activating a network from an incident, whether it's as simple as a trigger, or like a real significant event that occurred, you know, we do this bilateral stimulation to help locate all the other, you know, events that are on the same channel as this trauma. And so what we do with the resourcing is that you bring up you know, a nurturing figure, so someone might use a spiritual figure like Mother Mary, and imagine Mother Mary and feel her energy so this is about getting to a state of being able to access the energy of another person or an angel or some sort of guide team. Exactly. Grammy Stella loved my Grammy Stella Who do you have everyone tell me who is your person? Lila? I don't know. So maybe is it someone on? Is it a mystical person? I don't know. Nurturing a nurturing Well, I would think my mom Oh I love that. Okay, so mine would be Graeme Stella on Earth and definitely love that you said Mother Mary. But I haven't someone new on my team can we do Angel Amy storytime sure when is that okay? I cannot wait for Lila as reaction to this. Okay. Jackie ready So last week I so I I say for those that don't know me I am clairvoyant where I can see but I see a lot in my mind's eye and then blend a feeling with it. But when I'm sleeping, I can see see like see things in the room. See, and I don't really love that all the time. Because in you know, at night, it just takes you back when you're little and like you've you know, it's it's it's not it's just not normal, I'm sorry. So I had this woman come to me, and I was in a deep sleep, but I knew the woman was there. And I thought at first it was an angel. But I, she told me to roll over onto my right side. So I rolled over onto my right side, and I started to feel her. That's how I gained control. I knew she was a good spirit. But I, I she felt so real. I translated her as a medical professional. So I then thought I was in the hospital. So I'm laying on my right side in she is tending to me. And I thought I was in the hospital until I hear Andy snoring. And I hear Andy like, right, and then I'm like, wait a minute, I'm in bed. This is an angel. So I roll over, and then I'm back on my left side, fall back asleep, and she starts to shake me. Legit, like angels don't do this. Angels aren't like kind of, they're not aggressive. So she's like shaking my left arm, like roll over again. But nicely. So I roll over again. And I can feel her raking my whole left side in my sleep. Okay. So I wake up the next day and I tell my daughter, because my daughter is very open to this. My husband just gets completely freaked out like Do not tell me these things. He's in the bed. And he's watched pulled the guy like he has students everything's so bad. Like, right. And so I know it but fear if you don't have fear, it doesn't breed any of that. It doesn't attract any of that. Right? Okay, so I'm convinced she's an angel, but I'm confused how we feel about this Jackie? Good feeling. I know you're really open. I know you're fine with it, it gets even better. Okay, so I so I am convinced she's an angel. But then she's like, was a little too aggressive to be an angel. And so I she came back to me not last night the night before. And I hear her voice. And but before I heard her voice, I translate her as an indigenous woman. So she had bare feet, no shoes on. And she was she's just like, like my belt. For those that don't know me. I'm like, full figured five foot two woman. And she was awesome. And she came back. And she says to me, she says, I'm here to help you. Tell me what you need. You can ask me for anything. I roll over. And I say to myself, I want to lose 50 pounds. Right? She hasn't come back since she got gonna come back. She's gonna tell me what to do. Right? It's gonna be probably a lot of walking and raking leaves Lila. But yeah, so we're gonna let this unfold. And then in future podcasts. I'll let you know the story of Amy's indigenous woman. Right? And it's like, so Okay, so this is how I got here. And I am going to start stop talking. Because this is Jackie show not mine. So she's on my team Jackie. She's on my team girl. It's amazing. So this is what we're looking for is that. So when you can connect to her to her? Yeah. And you feel how she feels. And basically for a nurturing figure it would be I would have the client come up with a figure. And then imagine this, this spiritual figure this whoever could be somebody alive or someone that's passed away, I'm doing it bring up the feeling of what they feel like. And once you have a felt sense of it, then you start doing the bilateral. Oh, so can I do this at home? Jackie? So this is a great question. And one of the things that we really I think a lot of us need is to bring in positive emotion in our body so that it can you know lower the stress response I think so many people are stressed out right now with everything that's going on oh stress. So if you can do that on a daily basis, and even just start your day out with that, that can completely change your day. So you're accessing a higher state you're feeling some sort of calm you're sending a signal to the brain that you're safe. And then you know your your day will unfold in a in a completely different way. And then so in for us when we're doing this we're picturing this nurturing we're trying to get a real feel of this yes during person. Exactly. You don't I'm having an aha moment. So when I was a little girl I wanted like boss mom, like my mother has a us in this isn't to put a dig on my beautiful mother. But like this woman feels like someone that she's safe. She takes like she takes controls like rollover. Angels come and they flutter in and they're light and they're bright. Right? This is like grounded and like I got you Angela Amy, like, if she could maybe she could be more of a protector type of figure in your body is going to know just in terms of what we're using the EMDR for whether you know when she'll come in. And so maybe I'll just explain a little bit about how that could kind of play out. Yeah. So once you do that, we come up with two wise figures, two nurturing figures, two protective figures, typically, because when someone has experienced some pain, or you know, chronically in their lives, they were meant to feel a certain type of way, negative way throughout their lives, they probably didn't get nurturing very much, or they probably didn't have anyone that had their back or protected them. So we bring in these figures so that we can create a feeling of someone has my back in my own body. And this is where epi genetics commit comes in. Which is why and this is different from EMDR. This is the genetics. So basically, it's just very simple. It's just that we in you know, this is that when we create an experience in our body, our brain does not care if it's happened or not. It's just, I just really talked about it, I do it. I just know how to do it. In assist the client on how to heal themselves. I don't know how to put big words to what I do. It's all psychic. And yeah, yeah. So okay, I love that, Jackie. Yeah. And just to bring it into I mean, this is just a more scientific word that people like to know that there's science behind this, that yeah, it is the mix between the spiritual and scientific because, you know, even though we can access a feeling in our body, and you know, as I explain how it might unfold in it in a session, maybe I'll just do that now. So then, so we can have a better understanding. So after you create all the, the team, the resource team, and really, really feel it so so you're able to access those feelings, even if it's just for a split second, because a lot of people it might take some time to be able to like sit in a feeling of love because their nervous system can't handle that yet, because they're so used to cycling through shame, guilt, pain, overstimulation, fight flight. So they have to find the love within. Exactly and, and, and without, because we're connected to everything. Right. So. So I'm slowing you down, just to make sure I understand is, so they would say they say its highest and best for them to feel love. They would first like maybe think of, or draw their or lean into their, their person on their team. That's the nurturer. So they wouldn't even do anything yet. So I'm going to just basically, so a first session, I'll just, we'll talk and I'll get some information, I'll get like who they are, who they are in relationships, what their past experiences have been, like anything significant that they would like me to know. And as they're explaining that I'm listening, and then I'm also listening from an intuitive place. And understanding again, like I was saying, what what patterns did they find themselves in? Where are they getting stuck? Where are their triggers, and kind of knowing in the back of my mind, what their patterns could be based on what their triggers are. And in so after that, a session or two of collecting a history, then we would go in and build this team that might take a few sessions, one or two sessions. And so once they have the team, then we could be ready to start. And in everybody takes a little bit different times everybody's at different places. So it might take you know, a few weeks to a few months to do this history, you know, portion of it, and then also building the resources, but some people might just be ready immediately. It just depends on where they are. But after the resource team is is established, then we would go in and basically work with one memory. And I like to be very fluid with it. So someone might come into session and just say, I had this incident. This friend reached out to me the other day, and she really triggered me and I was made to feel like I did something wrong. So anyway, so what we would do is identify what was the thing what was the most triggering part of that experience? And she might say it was when she walked away and she closed the door in her car and that Was it and I saw the look on her face. And so I'm basically noting that down that that was the trigger. And, and then once we have that, then we get a sense of what emotion when she thinks of that, and she kind of will bring her to that point through like a visualization, she might close her eyes and, and recall that. And she might say, it makes me feel really angry and and then we identify the anger, where does she feel it in her body? And then what is the belief she has about herself, when this her friend closed, the door of the car drove away, and you know, the look on her face as she was driving away? And she would say something like, exactly, it's connecting to those limiting beliefs. I'm not worthy, I did something or I did something wrong. It can trigger some abandonment stuff. So then basically, what we're doing is activating that we're activating. We're trying to get her to a state of activation where she's triggered enough, because we do have to have some activation for a person to locate where the root is of this. Yeah, and but we want them to be in a safe threshold. So if you guys just kind of jumped into the podcast in a confused by this, go back to the introductory episode where Lila and I talk about the cells in what happens when you little Angelina, that's me goes over. I talked about myself in the third person goes over this in that episode, and it just gives you a base of what exact like, like the root of what Jackie just explained. Yes, that's really good. Okay. Yeah. So so then what we do is, is, I would, you know, bring it back up and have them basically it's, you go into it again. So we're bringing up the event that triggered them. And then as they're, they're closing their eyes, I might say, tune into your body, what do you feel like what's coming up. And then I would say something like, trace that back in time to the earliest memory that comes up, where you felt the same way and just basically let whatever come up, come up. And then you know, they might be there for a minute or so. And then most, all, most of the time the clients like yep, I'm this age, and I'm at this spot. And this is where I felt. And so then it's activating more of some sort of emotion there. And then so what we would do with the EMDR is, is go back to the earliest and most triggering memory, it's similar to tapping right, so So I always say we're gonna go back to the the very first time that you ever felt sad. What's like, I would say to someone, what's the first, you know, memory? And they'll say, Oh, when I was three, blah, blah, blah, click Yes. And yeah, in the great thing about the body is that we don't need the mind to do it. Yeah, you know, especially people that have that personality, where they're like, very, very intellectual and very smart. That's actually we're actually wanting to calm that down and allow the body to take us there. Yeah, so that can be a little bit of work to help people know that your body knows, and we don't need your brain to figure it out. So Lila, let's talk a little bit about, like, people we've met along our journey that this would be great for like OCD, or extreme anxiety, panic disorder, as well, as we know, all of these sort of unaddressed issues that live inside the body, as you say that you don't know whether they're physical or emotional, they can definitely, you know, present themselves as physical pain, you know, right. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say anxiety. I don't know, Jackie, do you do anything with people that have, you know, autoimmune sort of disorders? I think so. I wouldn't say specifically that. So. Okay. I think anybody that has anything going on in their body, what we would do is address the emotional piece, because there's an emotional piece to everything. And with autoimmune, you know, I can't guarantee they're going to be healed from their autoimmune, but I will definitely confidently say that I'm sure there's trauma associated somewhere. And the best possible thing that we can do, no matter what is to help clear that the emotion that's stuck in the body, right. So if you're listening to this, and there's a pattern of like, what could be patterns? So many things? Well, you could always be the friend that ends up Yeah, ending in the parking right, someone drives away. Yeah, like, that's abandonment, right. So if you know, you know, patterns of even dating, like the wrong, like, are the same kind of person over and over again. Exactly. Right. Or dealing with narcissism or? Yeah, anxiety is a big one for people. That's especially now Right. Yeah. Because it really sits on unsafe, anything that's unpredictable. All right, unsafe, right. And we live in a land of safety. Right? Not so humans just struggle with that. And you know, that would be me laying in the bed the lady comes in, I'm like, hi, I want to be your friend and and he's like, I'm out of here. You know? I'm laughing too because so I think one of the things that I love that you said that about, you know patterns and and narcissism because I think that there is that narcissistic codependent dynamic that plays out so frequently and I'm smiling about it because I know it's a very sensitive topic but I love one of the my passions is helping people with codependency is like, yeah, evolving out of being in that codependent way have a narcissist relationship in your life, please go see Jack. Listen, I I am very picky about like, who I'll let dip into my energy. And I would let I would let Jackie work on me. Like I would work with Jackie. I'm like, Super, thank you. You're welcome. And I mean that. So she's really, really good at what she does. I haven't done this with her. But we've done some other things together. And she she is a master with that emotional component. And I really, really, really trust your intuition too. Thank you. You're so welcome. So welcome. I so appreciate ya. So this was fun today, Jackie. Yeah, little chit chat. So thank you so much for coming and being here. And, you know, you just gave us like a ton of awesome information. I actually need to listen to this. Cuz like, I want to take it all in myself. Let us know how can people find you if they want to like book an appointment? Or maybe follow you on social media? Yeah, so you can go to my website. It's heart whispers healing.com. Ag ARTWHISPERS healing.com. In the same for Instagram. It's at heart whispers healing. Very good. Awesome. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you for listening. Thank you so much. We hope you found this enlightening. Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast. We can be found wherever you get your podcasts, and Lila and I are on Instagram at spill the ginger tea podcast. If you have any questions, comments or ideas for future shows, please message us there. Lila and either Lila and I will definitely get back to you. We will enter you back. So thanks for joining us. Until next time, be well