Healing power of massage - Catheryn

Catheryn a licensed massage therapist, Shamanic practitioner and owner of Spirit Wellness Institute, massage therapy training in Salem MA joins Amy and Lila to discuss all you "knead"to know about massage and how it can heal more than your just your stiff neck!!


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Transcript

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If you have the power to heal and change your life, you might not have found it yet, but it's out there and it exists for you. Our intention is to have a little fun, while introducing you to various new ways of healing. Welcome to the spilled ginger tea podcast. Hi there. I'm Angel Amy. I am in angelic life coach, in spiritual teacher, I work with people who are looking to strengthen the life they have, or to manifest the life that they want. Hi, I'm Lila and I began my healing journey looking for relief for physical pain. But realize that you can't separate the mind body and spirit and have become something of a connoisseur of techniques trying to improve myself. We're going to be discussing alternative health techniques or modalities. So if you're someone looking to heal the physical, mental or spiritual parts of yourself, or if you're wondering what to try, what can help you live your best life. You are absolutely in the right place. So welcome. Yes, welcome. So today we have the beautiful Catherine here with us. And Catherine is a licensed massage therapist, a shamanic practitioner, which we're going to learn what that means. And the owner of spirit wellness Institute in Salem, Massachusetts. That is correct. Thanks for having me today. You guys. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming, Catherine. So why don't you share a little bit about your work that you do with energy, and what healing modalities are anything that you would just like to share outside of the gate? Great. I would say, let's start with bodywork and massage therapy. And then maybe we can talk a little bit about the energetic, so perfect. My school is actually a massage therapy training school, or that's at least how it began. And then eventually, we started to add other modalities. And what is so actually really interesting in the state of Massachusetts is that massage therapy, by definition is only a physical modality. And so what that means is that as far as the boards that regulate our profession are concerned, we are actually only treating the physical body, which in some ways is fantastic, right? Because we're able to really focus and hone in on the skills that we're teaching our students. But for those of us who have a little bit of energetic experience, it also is a little bit silly. And that like we all know that our bodies are made of more than one thing, right? And we know that if we're touching another person, there are factors that are coming into play that simply aren't just physical, right, there is compassion, there is intention. And those things in and of themselves tend to be a way of transferring energy because we are energetic and physical beings, right. So most people want to go get a massage to release like stress or anxiety, or just kind of take a break from their lives. But really, when they're laying on the table, you're saying that they're receiving so much more than that? Absolutely. Whether they're aware of it or not, right, yeah. Lila, you had a lot of massages when you were training for your Ironman, your Ironman, so, Lila is a badass. She has done three to two or maybe I see when in the future. Lila tell us a little bit about how you relate your physical ailments or your own healing journey with the modality of massage. So obviously when you're training physically, so Ironman is long distance triathlon and swimming, biking and running. So there's lots of parts of your body that are all sore at the same time. In addition, you know, you can develop sort of chronic injuries that you've always had that are either made worse by what you're doing or you know, and then for me, I was caught in this like physical idea, like I had this chronic back pain and I, you know, went to all kinds of things to try and get it and struggled with this idea that it was something beyond like I was like, Well, no, of course my back hurts, like look at what I'm doing. Like there can't be anything else going on there. And so I found through that, that, you know, you can't separate those things. So even if you begin at massage because your back hurts, or you're training for triathlon, or you just had a stressful day at work, it can lead you down a path. Right? Is beyond that. So at what point do you feel you started to make connections, that there's something more going on like a mind body soul connection? Because Katherine's here today, because in my honest opinion, as a spiritual teacher, I feel she has mastered, let's say, bringing the dots together, or let's say it this way, pieces of the puzzle together. So at what point did you feel like, wow, there's something more to the healing process than going to get a massage and doing the physical. So meaning? That is a super, super important part. Right. But we know, as you know, Kathryn, and I are healers that there's more to it. Right? Yeah. I think, you know, I mean, like some people could be, I think I was resistant to the idea that sort of my physical body was really this reflection of my sort of inner person. So I think it was hard for me to wrap my brain around that. And because I was doing something very physical, in addition to that group, fitness instructor, so I felt like it was so easily explainable by just what I was doing. Plus, I think, I mean, I'm not gonna lie it doesn't everyone have a little bit of like, well, of course, I'm happy, everything's perfect. Right? possibly be going wrong, right? My life's great. So I don't know what they're talking about. So just so you know, when healers hear that we go, oh, let's get to the lovely root of that. Denial. Exactly. And I think it just all falls into place, you know, you might find someone that you connect with, and just the way they say it, or how you feel when you're with them, or how you feel experiencing what they're offering to you, I think is is what really gets you there. You know, if you're feeling resistant, which some people are not, some people are, are down with that right from the beginning. So Catherine, how would you like to explain for anyone listening? What was really going on behind the scenes with Lila? Like, right, so the average person is like, so this this, correct me if I'm wrong, this is Lila story. I'm training for multiple races, intense races, and my body is doing physical things. But energetic practitioners know that the physical body is made up of cells, which are energy. And if energy leans too far, in one direction, that causes imbalance or could cause dis ease in the physical body, right. So at some point, I know that Lila saw hundreds of different healers to get her answers in different explanations of what was really going on with her started to click over time. But I'd love for you to give your own version of this. Sure. Well, I think first of all, I would have to have Lila on the table to be sure. Right, because that sounds good. Yeah, that's right. Well, I mean, there's this idea, of course, that like when someone comes in with like a physical issue, that that part of the body, the physical body is related to the energetic body and that there's more than one thing going on. But I actually really strongly believe that it doesn't matter which pathway you access the healing, as long as it works for the person. So certainly, I am not saying my job isn't physical, right. So I came to the same discovery that Lila did through my work from the point of view of a practitioner. So certainly the number one reason people would come to see me was because they threw out their back or hurt their knee or sprained their Achilles tendon running or, you know, woke up in their neck wasn't mobile, right? So we have these physical set of conditions that we want to treat. And I certainly went after every technique that you could possibly gather in order to treat those techniques or to treat those conditions. But what ended up happening interestingly enough, is as I learned how to really be present with the body And listen really deeply. Because you're in this room right for like 60 to 90 minutes, the door is closed, the lights are low, there's really nothing to do but be present, right? I started to recognize on another level that people were looking for more than just tending to their physical pain, right. And I noticed this for lots of reasons. People would spontaneously start crying while I was working on a particular body part or I would work in a particular area. And all of a sudden, the client who was quiet for most of the session would start telling me a story about something that happened to them. And I started to cue into the fact that people were holding energetic things in those physical body parts, right, places that were hurting or needing, tending. And then slowly, through the years, I recognized something even more profound, which was that no matter why a person was coming to me, what they really were after was the feeling of being deeply held. Right, they wanted connection, they wanted to feel like another person was fully present with them, and that they understood them and that they were hearing them and they just simply wanted to be held. And so So, you know, I, as a spiritual teacher, teach that we come here, and we incarnate or we are born, as a soul inside a physical body. In this experience, this life experience here is a journey back to your soul, it's a journey back to yourself. And when when you receive physical touch, it is a way in which your awareness starts to feel things outside of the physical body. So it alerts the emotional component in it can also tie in the mind. And then you may start to process through something as you're laying there. And you're like, Why all of a sudden, am I remembering this? And why am I feeling this way? The body has cell memory. And so after you see 50 Different healers, like why law, you start to say, wow, there's something a little more to this, and it freakin works. And maybe in your own words, Lila, tell us? Do you know why it works? Well, I mean, I think that the other interesting part about it is having seen plenty of people, um, you know, the experience is so different depending on on where you are, who is there. So whoever the therapist is, even across modalities, like, I've had many massages by many different people. And while I would say the majority of them, you know, helped my back or my hamstring that was tight, or whatever was happening, the actual sort of experience that I had was very different in each of those settings with the person that was there. So I think you begin to feel that connection to someone. And it's different, you know, it's not the same thing. So even though the massage could be exactly the same, they could do the exact same thing, you start to realize that, that there's a little bit more going on with it. Yes. So every human holds a unique thumbprint or a unique energetic recipe, and you have a unique energetic recipe. So if I was to touch you and had a beautiful intention, my intention might be an intention of compassion. So now your energy is going to release, what you're ready to release. Whatever is there that sits on or is supported by that compassion. And then Katherine may come along and she has her own beautiful recipe, and her own thumbprint. And it may sit on lean into Catherine it's, it's unconditional love. So her unconditional love mixed with a deep, beautiful understanding of who you are, allows you to then release what you need to release. So this is why I say as Angel Ami. It's amazing to have different healers that offer different healing intentions and styles and whether it's belief system or whatever language you want to use in your living representation of that. Absolutely. And I'm curious Katherine, do you with with yours Students that you're teaching, do they really feel that difference with each of the people that they are practicing on? Is that reciprocal? Or? I think that let me get clear about what you're asking. Are you asking about their experience in relationship to their client? Well, yeah, we're they're asking if they can really feel that difference like person to person, you know, say to people that came in with the stiff neck, and they, whether they can really feel and especially by physically touching them, gotcha. They get into that difference of the energies of the people. Yeah. Well, I would say that that's probably a multifaceted question, right? So the first thing that we're looking to teach his presence and quality of touch, right, so we're talking about how to approach the body respectfully, we're cultivating a sense of reverence and presence in each of our students, gratitude for the work, but we're also teaching relationship to the client, right? So in this work, we're not just doing something to a body, we are in relationship to the person that shows up. So the students are trained in specific techniques, certainly, that alleviate particular conditions, but they're also trained to meet the person where they're at. And so it depends on what the client wants, actually, oftentimes. So it's observing and listening, and understanding. So it's more than touch. And I love that. That's beautiful Catherine. And certainly touch in and of itself is a way of listening, right? You're listening through your hands, people often ask, how did you know that that thing was going on in my body, right to that spot, like as if it's some sort of like mystery, but let me promise you once you've had your hands on 100 bodies, feel the difference in like the texture of the tissue, the fascia of the muscle, and you understand how to feel for places where the body is holding that it needs to release, and you don't understand, by energy you understand through your hands, it's very, very obvious, right? Because a certain part of the body will actually be thicker, more difficult to move, right. And then you're feeling for that yield in the clients tissues, you're feeling for the sense of softening and release, right the whole time you're present and working with your client. And then you're also listening to the soul of the client and the energetic message that's coming through as your client is speaking to you because they're usually asking something a little bit different than what they think they're showing up for. So it's our job to meet them in both places, and to provide what's needed in both avenues for both arenas. Yeah. Yeah. What is your favorite modality or thing to teach at the school? Oh, my gosh. I love teaching deep tissue. So even though I'm talking about things that are like energetic and ethereal and all of that, and I don't feel like I separate that part of myself from my work ever, I do love the really refined detail oriented techniques, that's just in my personality, there is a high capacity for precision. And also, I just love witnessing that moment when you nail a spot, and the client just softens right around your hands. Like they're like I needed that. Right? Like, you know that spot like in the top your shoulders where you're like, for the love of God, I paid you $100 Why isn't your elbow in there right now? Right? That's totally part of what I enjoy that that satisfaction of a job well done. Yeah. Yeah. So I just realized that your work, this is my interpretation. Energetically works from the outside in. Yes, you're correct. And my work works from the inside out. Right? So where I would throw the angels take someone, one of the hardest things to teach a human that didn't come in with with this knowledge is how to be mindful of their physical presence, and where they hold tension or where they're relaxed, or where, like we all know as humans if we have pain, right? Oh, I have this pain. But that pain means something. So it's teaching humans how to first go inside and observe and observe and feel their own energy. It's very unique, where you take everyone from feeling it on from the skin of well, I know you're on the aura, but From from the skin in, right. So that's really neat. I never thought of it that way. And all the layers, all the layers, and we're in the fascia where all of those beautiful pressure receptors of that set off all of those delicious good feeling chemicals in the brain were in the muscles were in the lymph were in the blood. It's really beautiful, right. So when people choose to journey, take our healing journey, whether they work from the inside out, or the outside in it, then uplift the vibes or the vibrations of the physical body. And since we live here, in third dimension, which is Earth, this is the only place if we're talking dimension or realms that one can manifest. Anytime you have a massage, or energy work, you are actually increasing your vibration. And then in turn that is given off into the atmosphere or the world and you receive back high vibrations. So that's beautiful. Thank you. Talk a little bit about when that is happening. What is happening, at least from my perspective, to the mental body and the energetic bodies. Yes. So there's this really beautiful thing that happens when a person is getting a massage. And this is just one of the many benefits, obviously. Because it's certainly like we're treating a stiff muscle or something like that there is like a direct physical benefit, right? There's also this really beautiful aspect of I would say almost like a mind or racing that happens, right? So when I'm getting a massage, and I put this together, because I get a lot of massage to like, I mean, just like yourself, I am a connoisseur of all the therapies, and I am very good. So myself. And so what I started to notice was happening is that my mental dialogue shifted really drastically while I was getting a massage. So if I showed up really stressed and I got on the table, you know, my thought process might have been sort of spinning around something going on in my personal life, maybe it was regarding my children or my business or, you know, the things that I had to attend to in my day. And we tend to as human beings hold these repetitive loops, right, these stories that we tell ourselves, and those help us to carry a load of stress that we don't necessarily want to be carrying. And then you get on the table, and then all of a sudden your mental dialogue goes from that to like, Oh, that feels so good. Oh my god, that also feels so good. Oh, please don't stop doing that. Oh, that is amazing, right? So and you're like, I'm so glad that my inner dialogue is on the inside of me because I sound like a total lunatic to this working on my phone. And it's so incredible. Yeah, it helps to have a best friend that is a massage. Table, I love you for it. It's a compliment to her. And also when people drool on the floor, I also find that a high common jeweler or if they snore, it's Oh, I hit all those boxes. Lila, sweater releasing, right. But well, one more thing, right is that you're taking a person on a journey, and you're literally drawing them down into their physical body, you're taking them out of their mind and out of the loop of the story they've been telling themselves. And when you interrupt that story for just 60 minutes, the person gets off of the table in a completely different place. I have a client who is a therapist, and she said to me, witnessing that with clients is like witnessing a little bit of God every time and it just touched me so deeply. Because you literally see a person completely transform into the most joyful, loving, calm, relaxed aspect of themselves. Right? That is the whole reason that they came in, right. And so it does this like really beautiful thing where it just interrupts that story. And as soon as that story dissolves, it's my belief that all of the systems of the body start to function, because your body holds the information that it needs to hold for your health. Right, just sort of get in the way by carrying that stress. Don't you feel that? That massage is a beautiful first introduction to people learning more about energy work or themselves in general, and making connections Absolutely because massage therapy has become so normalized in such a beautiful way. Right? And so when I first trained, it was sort of like a luxury item or something that people who had extra cash to spend would do, I never felt that way about it. But oftentimes, right in our culture, we were looking at it as this sort of, like, unnecessary thing. And we have transformed completely into this place of really deep understanding that self care has value, that downtime has value. And that resetting ourselves so that we can be in relationship to our lives in a in a way that is more harmonious has value. So everybody seems like to understand a bit like getting massage, just the coolest, I really think we can all think Oprah Winfrey for that. Because she really pioneered the talk about self care. And it being self love in a mainstream way. So thank you, Oprah. She really helped the healers in also helped a lot of people move forward, even if they weren't aware that it was helping them move forward. So this works, everybody, even if you don't know what's happening to you, and it requires nothing from you except to lie there, moan or sweat or whatever is happening for you. It's a really simple way to begin. And regardless, you're probably going to get that kink in your neck worked out or your tight calf or whatever is happening is going to feel fantastic after 60 minutes anyway, across the board. Exactly. I went to massage school. If I told you that no, no podcast. Wow. I did. So I was in corporate America, and sold insurance to famous people. And I got laid off in it. And I saw it as a blessing. And I was in my 20s and my abilities, my spiritual connection to the other side was coming back in a capacity that it was when I was little, because it was post 911. And the world had energetically shifted big time. So I decided I started to feel a calling to help people. And that's what I do now. But I didn't know how I was going to do that. So I said, I'll go to massage school. In I did in I give the worst in the history of massage. But I also very much I think it's pretty terrible. I would I would work on people in the class. And then when we got to the energy work, they would all say the same thing. Like your massage isn't bad. But whatever you're doing to me right now, this is your thing. This is amazing. So once I started to touch bodies, I started to lean into mediumship and talk to other people's loved ones that have passed on. I started to feel kinetically I started to see clairvoyantly I started to hear through clairsentience, which is all knowing. So I really owe it to us. It was pretty much the best 10,000 plus dollars because this was years ago that I have spent. That's amazing. It formed Angel Amy into who she is today. And I think it's so interesting because I think along the lines of what Catherine just said like because massage is super accessible to people. So even Angel Amy was drawn to that real accessible part of massage like that you can really understand massage, I do tell my students that all the time. So we have a variety of students who come through our school, those who are have maybe the flavor of of a healing modality that is a little bit more likened to physical therapy or rehabilitation work. We have those who are super ethereal, who are really energetically focused. And they actually build together a really full spectrum of the community of healers. And what I always say to them is that massage is the perfect first modality, right because you get some anatomical training, you get high training and ethics. And you also have this really beautiful modality that is flexible as far as all of the other modalities are concerned. You simply need a license to touch and the core foundation of that education in order to come into the profession and then you can tailor it however you'd like. Right? So I have some students who will go into end of life care and they'll provide touch for those who are transitioning. I have some students who go into to, I would say like the role of a doula who are providing touch for birthing mothers. I have some students who are Looking for gyms and our, you know, helping people who are in the fitness world to like, rehabilitate or learn how to organize their bodies and relieve pain. I mean, there really is no end to the applications of this work. And then you can add all of these other beautiful modalities to it, and you can sort of find your specialty. It's amazing. Yeah, that's beautiful. So it's, it's really not one size fits all, not at all, it starts with the personal connection, it mixed with some self exploration of what pieces and parts of learning about physical touch, and energy resonates for you. And then you form your own piece of the puzzle, whether your practitioner or your client, right, in, in really leaning into the parts that will help you move forward, whatever it takes to move forward. So if you mon on that table, on that table, right, it's a compliment to to us, right. It is bring it on snoring my own pastime but, and I work from the inside out. And there's some truth to that. And there are certainly different philosophies, right that we apply to the way that we work. And I would love to share mine with you. Because in the energetic world, there is this idea that I think doesn't necessarily serve, which is that a healer is someone that you go to who's going to give you energy, right? So I'm going to send all this good Juju your way, and that is going to, quote unquote, fix you or make you better, right. And I did certainly come into the field. And I was taught that I was taught that you give your energy to the other person right through all of the energetic modalities that I was teaching, or that you channel universal energy, or that you do this physical job of massage, and there was a lot of talk about it being sort of exhausting and depleting because you're giving, giving giving of yourself, and I don't actually believe or subscribe to any of them. Neither Nor do I. Yeah, yeah. So I love that you're going to explain why. So So of course, there's this physical aspect of the job. And I do teach my students to be in relationship to their physicality in a way that is beneficial to their bodies. So if we are doing a lot of massage, we are working on our fundamental movement patterns within the body, our breath work patterns, our footwork, right, we do a lot of yoga, so that we're literally dancing with the body, right, we're yielding into the body at a pace that is physically sustainable, but also on an energetic level. I teach my students and this is something that I just came through came to through time for myself, which is that I realized eventually that what was actually happening in the treatment room is that I was sitting, and I was cultivating over the 20 years of bodywork practice that I have the capacity to hold myself right to hold my seat to be a sovereign energetic being meaning a well contained energetic being. So because I am, of course, an empath, and, you know, I had my years where I was like to open and I was taking things out of my clients and that wasn't serving. And I figured eventually, like, Okay, well, it's probably healthier for me to hold myself, well, let's see what happens in relationship to my clients when I hold myself well, and I'm not over giving. And so instead of giving, I started to shift my mentality into this place of receiving while I was working, receiving all of myself, calling all of my energy mentally, spiritually, physically, everything that I put out into the world back into myself while I was working. And a really interesting things started to shift, like my perception began to open up. And I started to recognize that my personal power was actually in gathering and not in giving. And so when I sit and I am present with a client, I really deeply focus on holding all of myself. And this magical thing started to happen where my client started getting better. And like, like at lightning speed, like sometimes with only like one or two massages, and I was like, wow, this is weird. Like, what is going on? Being nice. You're in your truth. Yeah. You're in your true authentic self. Yeah. Well, and there is resonance, right? Yes. So if you come home fully to yourself, and you are then in relationship to another human being, yeah, what you're actually doing is making an invitation to the other person to come home fully to themselves. And that is what healing is that is right hailing is not taking away a client's capacity to heal. It is believing deeply in the client's capacity to heal themselves in that it is while there are, you know, several practitioners nerves that are born with that understanding, and then some find it along the way. And then some think they have it, but they don't really have it. And I don't mean that negative, but not every practitioner has that exactly what you just explained when so I teach intuitive development. And when I teach the students how to connect, we first connect to ourselves. So it's, it's, that's your version of that, we first hold space and get to know our own energy first, our own beauty, our own beauty that lies within, in TNL. As we go along, on the journey, I have a few students that have been with me eight years, and they're hobbyists, they take the in, they're super psychic, but they just want to do it for fun. We lean into the parts of them, parts of themselves, that assist with them learning more about their true authenticity. And when they do the psychic imagery, or messages get more profound. So it's it's across the board, that it starts with self connection. And that is what why law, from my in my professional opinion. You learn about yourself as you were going to these healers was really what am I all about? Like, what's my recipe? And how does Lila tick? It doesn't, those that are listening to this, it doesn't need to take 50 practitioners, that's not what we're saying. I have a handful, but a handful of practitioners that I do see that resonate for me. And it could be two, three, I usually suggest more than one only because of what we explained about the recipe. And so yeah, and I think it's important that we sort of delineate that all of these different modalities, or most of these different modalities are along the same lines of kind of getting yourself back to you. So whatever, which ever modality whether you're very comfortable calling a massage therapist after hearing this, because that seems like something you could tell all your girlfriends that you do, or if you want to go somewhere different for energy therapy for it for tapping whatever calls to you. Ultimately, everyone everyone's intention is to get that healing to you yourself within yourself. That it's all sort of contained in you. Coming back to that. Yes. So healers do not heal you. You heal yourself. Healers and practitioners are beautiful. I need the word. Facility. Support back to yourself. Right? Yeah. And in that, that is really what it's about. Yeah, right. And I would think for you, Catherine, because you can heal that tight neck or that it probably is, you know, you feel between two parts of it because you can, you know, sort of heal the that physical problem that someone might come in with, as you say, like, maybe one massage or two massage, like they're gonna feel great. But in addition to that, there's so much more going on. And it doesn't matter, right? So it doesn't have to be this like super stressful thing where you're like, oh, gosh, I have to be aware of all this stuff. Right? Glad you said that. We don't need any extra burdens. Like we have plenty on our plate. It is just simply that accessing healings through the physical body affects the energetic body. Accessing the energetic body affects the physical body. It doesn't matter which way you go. Right? Right. You're on the money. I'm actually in the middle of something right now. And I just said to my girlfriend, I go, she follows all this all this language and I go what's really going on with Angelina? And I teach all this and I'm like, what? I see it but I'm just going with it. Yeah, so that the translation of that is like lay on the table. You don't need to know what's happening to you. Just enjoy night night. Yeah, that's what I tell people just go night night in and surrender. Yeah, the best of your ability absolute right. I would say when you're seeking a practitioner. I would choose somebody who you feel drawn to who feels lighthearted, who feels fun who feels compassionate. I mean we have these these capacities within ourselves to know when we land in the right place don't question it right you land somewhere and you're like that's the best massage I've ever had in my life just go see that person that's crap matter what what modality they offer you'll find the right person you'll feel it in a true spiritualist welcomes that and does not get offended when you say you don't resonate for me. I send so I don't resonate my husband I really based on spirituality. It's based on friendship and some other things. Beautiful. Yeah. So I actually like that he does not need that side of me. Yeah. Right. He finds it within himself, which is beautiful. So your work side? Let's be honest. Do you want to work when you get home? No, my ex husband never wanted a massage from me a day and our 20 year marriage. Why do you think we stay married? Yeah, he did a psychic test last night to me. And I was crazy because it was the full moon. So I was like, wow, we're the moon is so powerful. It's bringing the spirituality at the end. He was like, listen, I just went to Walmart Tobias the new microwave, which I won't use a microwave. That's just personal preference. Don't take please, if you use microwave, you're not a bad person. Okay. He says, I didn't get an expensive one, which is good. Because we just bought a house and we need 100,000 things. He goes. So if you can give the name of the brand. I'm going to believe that your bed together 25 years 25 years dealt tested? Yeah. Right. So I did I bring it on. So I start and I see. I first saw Harvard, this college. So ah, and then I pause and I lean into it. So he tells me no. So if you're in if you're learning, intuitive development, just get thick skin because everybody tells you no. But sometimes it's Scooby Doo and mystery clues. Right? So he says, okay, so he says, I go Hold on. So I look and I see Alexander Hamilton. And then I see a beach so I look at him and I go Hamilton Beach. You got a cheap mic boy. Did I know. I did it. Girls. That's amazing. Right? So satisfying. I know. I just throw that in there because it's it's hilarious. 25 years and it just feels like it's awesome. Oh, man. Well, this was lovely today. Oh, nice. And it was so great having you today. Catherine, thank you so much. And thank you so much for taking the time to come in. share all your wisdom, and your love and your knowledge with everyone. How does one book an appointment with you or learn about your school or your services? Sure. So our website is spirit wellness institute.com And we offer massage therapy training. We offer shamanic practitioner training as well as training in end of life care. Very good. Thank you, Catherine. And thank you for listening. We hope you found this enlightening. Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast. We can be found wherever you get your podcasts in. We're on Instagram at spill the ginger tea podcast. If you have any questions or ideas for future shows, please message us there. Thank you for joining us, and until next time, be well