Labor and Postpartum Doula - Mari Leckel/Owner Boston Birth Associates

Mari Leckel a labor and postpartum doula and the owner of Boston Birth Associates joins us to discuss what kind of services doulas provide. How they support families through pregnancy and birth. Also all the info you need to know to hire one for yourself for your friends or your family.
Mari also hosts childbirth education classes, prenatal yoga classes, and more. We talk about how important maternal support is after having a baby, and how a doula can help you navigate your way through pregnancy and beyond!

Mari can be found at https://www.bostonbirthassociates.com/
and on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/thebostondoula/

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Transcript

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Hi, I'm Angel Amy, and hi I'm Lila and today we have Mari Lecco with us. She is a doula and the owner of Boston birth associates. She just opened her second office. Congratulations in North Andover mass querque. First is in Woburn. And we discovered Mari on Instagram where she is the Boston doula. So welcome Mari. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Welcome Mari in our beautiful energy. Yeah. So Mari tell us a little bit about what you do as a doula. Yeah, so again, my name is Marie Leko and I am I wear a lot of hats. So I'm a certified labor doula, postpartum and infant care doula. I'm a lactation counselor, a Reiki Master Teacher, yoga instructor, carseat, safety educator, childbirth educator. I wear a lot of hats around here so that I can get as much support. What does the doula do? So by definition, a doula is someone who supports physically, emotionally and educationally. And I like to equate it you know, a lot of just people are not sure what a doula is, or maybe they've heard of it. I get a lot of like, oh, you're a doula. Like a midwife? Yes. Actually, we're very different than a midwife. And a lot of people don't know that. So a midwife is someone who's medical and the doula is non medical. So think about a birth coach for your birth. Or I like to equate it people hire a wedding planner for their wedding. Well, I'm not for your birth and for your postpartum you know, I'm the one partner described me as the doula is my consultant. They know everything about this. I don't like when I need to do a lot. I'm not just telling me what to do. Yeah. Walk me through it. Yeah. Exactly. And tell you what's going to be okay. Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of people don't really know what a doula is. Or they equate a doula to, I'm going to put this in quotes, natural or home birth. Yes. And that's really not what we do. You know, the majority of our clients are actually having babies in the hospital. There's a very, very small percentage that will actually do home birth. So we're, therefore not just unmedicated births, medicated births. Were in the O R for C sections. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah, I have a C section, Mary. So neither Lila and I had doulas and my birth story is a nightmare. And Lila second, baby's story isn't the greatest either. So you say the first one was the greatest? I was wondering, but it went down. Yeah, so mine was to the point. I never tried it a second time. And I would hate to see someone else feel that way. And this is what a piece of the puzzle as to why we wanted you to come on. So people can just learn more about it and have peace of mind and kind of understand what it is. And even if you're not you're listening to this, you're not going to have a baby. It's it's there's there's concepts that we're going to discuss that you can use across the board. To which is great, right? Yeah, absolutely. About like support. Yeah, what people need. Yeah, it's really important. And I think that there is so much fear around birth. And my goal as a doula is to take away that fear. You know, as the doula I instill strength and reduce fear. That's what I do. Oh, I love that too. Yeah. So you don't advocate for so actually, I help the families advocate for themselves. I give them language because that's a lot more empowering than me speaking on their behalf. Right. So one of the components of education, you know, doula support is education. And so as a doula being in the room, we don't have shift change, like the staff were there the entire time. So let's say they are presenting something like Pitocin. For example. Pitocin is a synthetic oxytocin, it's a medication that's given to make the contractions happen to make the uterus contract and progression, start to begin. Well, maybe the family doesn't quite want to use Pitocin yet or, you know, they have questions what the doula does in the moment, we always say, Okay, let's use our brain, that acronym brain B, let's look at the benefits of what's being presented are what's let's look at the risks. And we talk it all out a well let's look at an alternative. What can we do instead of that right now? And I what is my intuition tell me and then N What happens if we say No, not right now? So we're there to break it down and help them use the brain acronym. And then they can make the decision that's best for them. So how great is that when something is being presented and you have someone you can talk about it? Yeah, who gives you options? Yeah, and gives you alternatives. So if you're listening to this and you do need to choose a doula, I suggest interviewing people. Is that part of the process? Mari? Yes, absolutely. We offer free consultations, which is essentially the interview so that you can get to know the doula know what their philosophy is, and things like that. Now, there is an energy or there is a knowing or there is an internal gut feeling that you will feel that the person or the doula will make you feel safe. Yes, that is what you're looking for. Now Mary and I have never met. Lila was never met her either. We did find her on Instagram, job, Lila. And Mary walked in with her her beautiful daughter because we are in Massachusetts during April vacation. And you have this very calm, grounded, nurturing, safe feeling about you naturally. Have you always been this way? Have you worked on yourself? Have you? Yeah, that's a great question. I would say I definitely have worked on myself. You know, I've been in different places throughout my journey in life. I'm actually I'm a mom of two girls. And I also have two grandchildren. So they call me Lila. Wow. You can't see her she has on the sexy red lipstick. I always do a pop of color. That's my jam. Girl. Yeah, so I have two children and two beautiful grandchildren. And before I was a doula, I actually worked in law enforcement for over 10 years. You're a badass. Wow, I am. Yeah, I am a badass. Yeah. Oh, that safety. So in, in spiritualism in the land of energy, safety and protection. It you know, when we think of police officers, or EMTs, or I'm gonna lump teachers in there, too. They make us feel safe. Yeah. So I'm onto something with you, as I read your energy, so I could see why you in in a time of birth, it is the most vulnerable thing a woman can do. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. So what we want as women is someone that that can advocate with us, and really intuitive intuitively understand what's going on, and be in control of the situation from a healthy place of safety. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, it can feel out of control, it can feel unsafe, right. This is a time that you don't have control over your body, and especially someone that's never experienced that. And again, we in our culture, we have so much fear around birth, in the movies on TV, that is not what birth looks like at all. And if I can just even in my childbirth education classes. I'm very candid about my own journey. But I think it's really important for them to understand that it is not so scary as they think or they've been told, right? Because I always say, why do we see a pregnant person at the grocery store in the line? And she's just trying to buy your vegetables. And you're like, Oh, my sisters cousins, neighbor. almost died and birth and you're like, oh, okay, thank you. Bye. Why do we do that to me? Yeah. Why don't we? It's unsolicited. Yeah, not good. Advice. Not. Right. So mine was a nightmare situation. I tend to keep it to myself. Yeah. But we have to remember that there was a spiritual opening that happened when I birthed Julia to and I had, it was the first time I use my voice to say that I am psychic, publicly the first time. And so it forced me Julia forced me to really step out. And it was such a beautiful gift. Yeah. My point in that is that I was trying to explain to the nurses that she had the cord wrapped around her neck right in the doctor was like, Amy, you'll be pushing by morning. And so you weren't being heard now. Yeah. And so I didn't have a doula. I was birthing and being the doula and I was the nurse to how I so it was it was really, really stressful. Now, this is a very unique situation. So I'm not trying to scare anyone that is listening. It was the best thing that happened to me from a spiritual lens. I can feel it was a gift. Yeah, because I'm not at now burst jeulia Birthday Angel Amy really? Right, right. Yeah. So but women do, they'll say, oh, you know, you're gonna go and do that or you have another baby, right? Yeah. But Why would women keep doing it? If it was that bad? Well, and it's not, it's not always set up for it to be that great, which is why you're Homare. That's why Yeah, you set it up to have the best possible with this. So when in the process, does somebody get in touch with you? Yeah. So you know, sometimes people pee on a stick and call me right away, or like, put me on the calendar, especially those that know, like, I know, they bulk up, you know, borrow books up. But anywhere in the process is a great time to reach out to a doula. I always say the earlier the better. Because what we do is, we're there from the moment that they say, Yes, I want to do love throughout their entire pregnancy. I tell families, we are your 24/7 Google, I don't want you googling anything. I want you to ask us. Right. And so we're there the whole entire process for anything they need. Maybe they're feeling anxious about something or an appointment they just went to. And look, I'm friends with a lot of OBGYN and midwives. They just don't have the time to sit and really talk throwing things out when you're at your appointment is like up check. Yep, everything look good blood pressure. Okay, next appointment. Yeah. So the doula is that gap, right, where they're to process the things that are happening in the appointments, questions that they have about, oh, I'm feeling this little twinge in my hip, what is that about? And so I can really help navigate the entire pregnancy, and then take away some of that fear factor that they have helped them prep for? What do they need for baby gear? We have some clients that will say I'm really feeling overwhelmed about the registry. And I'll say great, let's get on a call. Let's get on a zoom. You share your screen. We'll go through it one by one. Oh, like what they need. Yeah. Oh, that's so overwhelming. Yeah, it's so overwhelming, then you end up with 500 things and you need like four. You're like, you have to have this. Yeah. And you need nothing. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I mean, just to just talk that out, just alleviates so much anxiety and just the stress of trying to figure this out. And you know, when I was having my children, I had no idea about doulas I wish I did it would have changed my experience, both during the birth and the postpartum. We can talk about that in a little bit. But I think that, you know, when I first started doing this, I was working in law enforcement. And I thought that's what I was going to do until I retired. And I graduated from Tufts University, I immediately started working in law enforcement. And then I went on this journey to try to have a second baby. And that journey, we really struggled. We went through infertility treatment, my youngest is the eighth try medically to conceive. She's an IVF. Baby. We lost twins throughout that process before her. And so I remember when we had that loss, we were in the doctor's office. And, of course, I was upset and crying course. And the nurse was like holding my hand when the doctor was there. And I felt so. And my husband was there, I felt so loved and supported, that I remembered that moment, and it stuck with me. And then the eighth try worked. And she now just turned 10. But while she was when she was a baby, she was almost a year old. And I was reflecting back on the journey just to get her and look at what we've been through. And I remembered that moment we had we had that loss. And I said to my husband, I want to give that feeling back. But I don't know what that means. And he said, Neither do I figure it out, let me know. And all of a sudden, you know, I believe things happen for a reason. And I just found this training to become a childbirth educator. And I said, I like to educate people. And so I went and took the training and I met a bunch of doulas, and they started to tell me what they did. And I said, that's how I'm gonna give that feeling back. That's what I want to do. So I dove in certified as a labor postpartum childbirth educator. And I built this cute little solo doula business. And then Monday through Friday, yeah, Monday through Friday, I would do my law enforcement, Warren sweeps in my bulletproof vest, and then on the weekends. And it was very polar opposite of worlds. But it started to grow organically. And I was at this crossroads. Where, which way should I go? And my husband said, You'll never know unless you try. And so I left my what I thought would be my long term career. And I started an agency. And I just knew that I wanted to have as many team members to support as many families as as possible, and it just has grown. And I've been doing it nine and a half years. And this is what I'll do until I'm old and gray. So first of all, eight tries to have baby number two, yeah. Eight is the infinity number as, as you might know, it was the eight on its side. Yeah, it's the most high vibrating number. So let's, let's think about that. And then, you know, we did talk to her talk about safety and protection. And you felt this calling. So what are what's like the craziest thing you've ever done for like a client? Is it too early to write? I feel like there is nothing that I won't do for a client to be honest with you. Okay. I have you know, I mean, the thing people have to understand is that doulas are committed to you in this whole entire journey. Like, I step away from the table and have people that are having questions or think they're having contractions, you know, I get calls at 2am. And I get out of bed and go in the other room and talk to them. And I leave in the middle of the night, and it's a huge commitment, but it's something that is so impactful. That people that have had doula support, will say at the end, I would never do this again without a doula. And I would totally, you know, if I could go back, I would have gotten not only a labor doula, but a postpartum doula. Let's talk about that. Yeah. Postpartum doula. Yeah. You know, and for postpartum doula, you know, there are, we're trained to recognize things like perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. And if you have someone at the forefront who's helping you in the postpartum period, look, your family is great. And they want to help as much as they can. But sometimes, they may not say something that's quite as supportive as it probably could be. All right, my mother, and this isn't to like totally diss my mother. My mother is a beautiful person, but she I remember, she looked at me, I had severe depression, very severe. And she said, you just need to start to walk and lose weight. And the baby was, I don't know, three weeks old. Yeah, yeah. I don't think she'd say that to me. Now. This is 14 years ago, because she's a different person. But she didn't at the time. Yeah. And so I was just like, angry. Right? Yeah. But so I was feeling anger. And I was feeling sadness. Yeah. And I my light was so damn. So damn, sorry. I would I would so get a postpartum doula. Yeah. And if I had known, if I had known, I would have to, I really struggled with both in the postpartum period, but especially with my youngest, like, I was not. Okay. And I think for me, and I think a lot of women that especially struggle with infertility, they don't want to say that things are not okay, because of the journey you went through to get here. So in my mind, I'd be like, well, you should be so grateful, Mary. And really, I was struggling internally, and I kept it inside. And that is another reason why I do this work, especially in the postpartum. And I educate people during their pregnancy, to please plan for your Postpartum Support. Yeah, what does it look like? Is it the right kind of support? You know, and for us, we come in, we're not only coming in from an evidence based practice of newborn care and tips and tricks of swaddling and soothing and, and breastfeeding and bottle feeding and pumping and all of the things in between. But we are coming in, in that non judgmental way in an unbiased way, where I could sit down and look at you and say, How are you today? Right? Nobody asks how we're doing after we have a baby. They say, How's the baby? How's the baby gaining weight? I'll be sleeping. What about me? I'm really struggling. And the postpartum comes in the doula we come in. And I say, how are you today? Yeah, what can I do? That's going to be helpful for you? Yeah. And it's whatever you need. Do you need to talk about how are you doing infant feeding? Do you have questions? Do you want to just take a nap? I know that I'm in the other room. Do you want to talk about parenting philosophies? What works right for you? And I'm going to support you in that manner. So beautiful. Let's talk about this to Lila is the men. So So I realize you know whether you have a partner or you know a husband or so if someone identifies as male, they are not necessarily intuitively in alignment with with the birthing process in the energies that take place after Yes. So as Mari you or someone on her team comes in, as a doula comes in, is also highly beneficial for the male species. Oh my god, right? Yes. And this isn't about throwing them under the bus that was about supporting them. And having them be able to see how you react to the to the wife's needs. Yes, I love that you bring this up, because a perfect example of this is I could be at a birth and they're, if they're, they're a couple and she has a husband. Let birth is along the labor is a long process a first time mom can be in labor for 24 hours or more. And so when the doula comes in, especially when we transition to the hospital, I'm helping with tips and tricks and movement and comfort measures and suggestions. But also, I might look at him and say, actually, you know what? Right, now's a good time for you to lay down and close your eyes. Right? Now's a good time for you to step out and go get something to eat or a cup of coffee or to go for a walk or make a phone call. And then she's never left alone. And it gives him the recharge that he needs to be family. Yeah, it's not I always say, you go walk the dog. Yeah. When we actually will say, Oh, do you have you have any pets at home? They'll say, oh, yeah, we have a dog? Well, we want to know, because we're going to help you transition the beat, we take care of the entire fail and baby and the dog. And I just want to say like, you don't have to be anticipating anything, you know, super difficult or anything sort of, you know, unexpected to happen. I mean, having a newborn in your house is unexpected enough. Yeah. And you know, this idea that you should just know how you're supposed to do it. Because you have hormones in your body. Figure it out is so outdated and not helpful. Yeah, that's right. And that's one of the reasons one of the things we offer a lot of services for families. And one of the things we do as a free new moms group weekly, because I want to have that community and support for you. Because there is someone else who's feeling the same way you are. And maybe you don't want to vocalize it. And I think that's the problem is we don't talk enough about the postpartum side of things. We don't talk enough about, you know, this is hard and I'm not okay. And we need to make it in a way that it is okay to vocalize that. It is normal. And guess what, you're gonna get through it with the right support. Correct. And let's all just it should just be as easy as possible, right? Yeah, happy as mom she's rested. She had something to eat right? She's ready to give it another go. So all of us didn't have a doula. Now. Do you guys remember coming home the first first day with your first baby? I sat on the couch. I looked at Andy and I go, what do we do now? I said the same thing I said to doing when they when they're wheeling you out and they hand you the baby. It was like sheer terror like, well, who's gonna come and click for the nurse they taught you is how to like change a diaper. Right? That was that? Like I did not know. Yeah. Yeah. And newborn babies are very noisy. And nobody told me about. And so she'd be like, in the crib, and she'd be like making all these grunts and noise. I'd be like, is that from? She okay. Like, yeah, nobody tells you. Yeah, they don't talk about that. They don't talk about how bad your breasts heard. If you were like, breastfeeding, and then not breastfeed. Yeah, and no one talks about what things look like, don't look like Yeah, and I do the doula tells you. Yeah. They'll say to me, oh, Mari, you know, they'll ask me a question. I'll be like, Well, yes. Here are the facts, my friend. Yeah, we're gonna get through here that mesh underwear. Yeah. Who's either there or not? Or right? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, again, the doula is there to normalize what is happening. So even when you get home, your birth doula, you can text me and say, Hey, we just got home. I have a question about this. Well, guess what, that's what I'm here for. And then if you need us for postpartum, we also do overnight care. I mean, lack of sleep is incredibly, like, impactful on how you can function right? Right. And so if I come in as the overnight doula I'm coming in, we usually do 10pm to 6am. I'll come in, and you'll say to me, Oh, I just fed the baby. Okay, great. Off to bed you go. I'll be in another room with the baby. I'm watching the baby. I'm watching for feeding cues. I'm getting ready to feed to bring the baby to feed, and then bring the baby to let's say she's breastfeeding. If that's her choice. I bring the baby to feed. she breastfeeds as soon as she's done, she gives me the baby back, rolls over I burp and swaddle and diaper and get her baby back to it's it's so good. How long do you stay with a family? How long do you typically stay with a family? That's a great question. So for birth, we usually if we're doing birth support, we usually stay up to two hours after the birth and then we Due to postpartum follow ups for them, and then for postpartum I mean, we can be with a family for up to a year. It's up to them. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So I, you're so lovely, I would be nervous. Still be with you, right? So I like well, I really have no you teach about how to release someone you love with love. So let me tell you, if you if you're listening to this and you use Mary or one of our ladies, you're going to have to learn how to her with love. It's really hard to release someone that you love with love. It really is. But it's pot, it's healthy. It is healthy boundaries. And like, what if you go back to the brain that you talk about in life all the time? So how great would it be to have somebody just remind you of that when you're thinking of something, you know, you're talking about a completely different situation. And somebody says, Wait, stop, apply the brain to this. That's right. Like there's always time. I always say there's always time to use your brain, even in the birth room. Because look, birth, you go in, and then they tell you to do things and you're like, Oh, my okay, I guess so. They don't really have time to talk things out. Right? You there's a process to birth right. So they're going through the checklist, if they're I say this to families, if you're in the birth room, and they're coming in talking about another option. If there's time to talk about it, there's time to take five minutes and use your brain. And then you just break it down. Yeah. And then make the decision best for you. Yeah. My goal as a doula. It doesn't matter to me. You know, a lot of there's a lot of thought that doulas are, you know, again, for non medicated just natural like hippie dippie, homebirth. Right. Look, if you want to do that I'm going to support you, by most people are having their babies in hospitals, especially first time moms. And my goal as a doula. It's not about if you get an epidural or not. What matters to me is that, how did you feel during the process? Did you feel like you were part of the process? Did you feel like you were supported, that you were educated? You were empowered? Did you feel loved? That is what's going to make a memory for you of the day that you met your baby. You know, I've had clients that when I first started becoming a doula, I thought it was just about only having a baby a certain way. And then over time, like no, that's not what it's about. And I had a client once who she did not want to have a C section. That was one of her, you know, we put together a birth plan, I call it birth preferences. I don't like the word plan. And that was one of our desires not to have a C section. It turned into a C section. Yeah. And I was there for that journey, and that twist and turn and prepare them before they went into the O R. And like I said, Sometimes were led in there with them. And after she said to me, even though I said I didn't want a C section, I felt so secure and safe knowing that you were telling me the process I was about to have. And I knew that you were going to be there wanna cry? My shits coming up? But we just talked about we did we literally this gem section off on my story. And no one told me anything. And yeah, you when you've said so your arms get tied down. And I was like when your organs come out, and you flail like a fish and no one talks about the shaking. Yeah, sorry. Right. And you I tell. I said to the anesthesiologist, am I kind of stop shaking. And he's like, not for a while. But hearing it was really scary. Just to have known in advance, changes everything right? Just everything. Yeah, that's perfectly normal. This is what we're gonna do. That's the point of having the doula even if it turns that way. I prep you before you go in, I say, you're going to I lay out the whole room, I tell them what they're going to do. Where you're going to be, if you have a partner where your partner is going to be, I tell you step by step. And then if I'm not allowed in the O R, I wait and I'm in recovery with you, oh, when you come out, I'm there. I'm there to help you process. I'm there to help you if you wanted to do skin to skin like whatever it is. And that just that's what it's about. When I think about doula support and what families need. It's about your overall experience. So Mary puts women in their own personal power. So if you're not about to have a baby, I is Angel, Amy and all your angels and spirit guides want you to think about when you choose friendships, and you choose love relationships. It's choosing people that that support you and love you and nurture you that bring out the best in you that listen to you so that you can live your best life. If authentically in be in your own personal power, so you're teaching women this across the board my love, not just women that are birthing. You get a lot out of this Lila, because we're both post baby age. Yeah, I mean, I'm on like the cusp, it would probably be a miracle. But yeah, so we learned I'm way past but I will tell you that it so I, my sister had a, you know, difficult time adjusting to having a baby. Yes, she didn't sleep. She didn't want to nurse. She didn't want to bottle. And she had a very difficult time finding anyone who had any sort of compassion for her. In that time. It was like her and her husband just buckled down. Yeah, they weren't Amy's sister who I really our sister. And so I had the benefit that she had gone through that before me. And I remember she said to me, before I had the baby, call Lady J League, because no matter what you can call someone who will be nice to you. Doesn't matter whether they have any advice, but just so be nice. Because if you if you're crying, yeah, the baby, you know, if you're going to nurse and the baby's not latching or whatever, or just dumb questions like, the baby keeps spitting everything. How do I? It's just like, right mom presents? I would say that's not a dumb question. Let's talk about that. Right? Like, let's talk about when Julia got our period at like, one week old blood came out of her one. Yeah. And I was found. No one told me all the hormones that are have baby girls can kick it and like, where do you go for that information? You call you call the doctor and then they tell you it's normal. And it happens that they give you the percentage, but they don't ask you Are you okay? Now that blood just came out of your baby? Like, are you okay? Yeah, no one else no one tells you about? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we do all of this prep work for the big day. And you know, you think about what kind of way you're going to decorate the nursery and what kind of baby here you're gonna What cute little maternity clothes you, you think about all these things. And then the big day comes? And like you said, right, they give you this tiny human. And then like, good luck with that. And you're like, Oh, crap, what do we do now? What do we do? Yeah, what do we do now? Well, but now you have to start thinking about the I call it the other side. Because when you have a baby and you bring that baby home, you're in what I call the thick of the fog. Yeah, you're in the thick of the fog. And I will say a promise the fog will get later and later. We're gonna get through this together. But that's what you are. You're in the dark days. Yeah. About three months. It was like you'll get through these dark days just to hang on till you get to that three month period. Yeah. But I have a distinct memory of coming home with my second. And I'm like sitting on the couch. And everyone comes for the visit. These days. No. Part of the furniture. Yeah, take the baby. They're all messing around. You're sitting there. Like, I don't feel so good. I'm tired. Yeah, I don't feel so good. Maybe, you know, and for me, I really I was having like, intrusive thoughts. And I was like, you can't tell anybody what just popped into your brain? Yeah, yeah, it was really scary. And then I remember I just like, and that's the thing, right? You have the baby and everyone comes around, and they take the bait like, none of that is helpful. What about me? But they take the baby, or they come and see the baby. And then everyone goes back to their lives. Yeah. And that's just you in this tiny human and you're like, Oh, my God, you're not sleeping. You're thinking all these things. You don't know if this is normal, or that is normal. And that's when a postpartum doula comes in really handy. I come in the door and I'm like, how are you today? What can I do for you today to make your sandwich? You know, somebody just asked, like, do you need Yeah, it's it's really enlightening. Looking back. And so do you have any light statistics? We won't hold you to this, but the percentage baby of births in this country that use doulas? Oh, well, you know, the I don't have the exact percentage, but the percentage is going up. I will say that. Look, doulas have been around for a very long time. And if we look back at birth, women were coming to support other women as they were having their baby. They were being their doulas. They just weren't called a July. You know, doulas have been trained since like the early 90s. And I think now it's starting to come more at the forefront. But what we need to do a little bit better. We need to educate more about postpartum doulas because people don't know as much about postpartum doulas. There's a lot of research that shows having a Labor Day hula can have less interventions, less rates of C sections and things like that. So there's a lot of people starting to know about the word doula and starting to be like, let me find out more information about that. So I'm really glad that people are starting to know more and more. But, you know, I think that if we can have people start to do their own research to find out if this is something that might be helpful for them, that's half the battle, just the education piece of it, I think. And I think it starts by taking a childbirth education class. A lot of people think they don't need to take that going into birth. But I always equate this as look. birth as a business. You're the consumer. Get all the information. Yeah. So that you can be well adjusted and you can have a good plan and a good foundation. Take a childbirth education class, get educated about your choices, so you can make informed decisions along the way. Is this covered by insurance? I wish it was unfortunately, it is not covered by insurance, but I will say it is very affordable. For our Boston breath associates, we do payment plans for families. We tell families to ask for doula support for a gift at your baby shower. We have gift cards like it is doable, and it's worth every penny. I mean, think about the money that people spend on other things right for your fancy latte. orthodontic, orthodontia work. Yeah, like I just paid off Julius braces. But I would equally pick going back. I would pay for a doula. Yeah, I mean, for anywhere from like 1500 to 2000. But we're doing all have support throughout your pregnancy, during the birth coming to the hospital laboring with you staying until the baby's born coming to your home after right after you get home on a Wednesday. Our goal is to be there the next day or the next day after that. Yeah, think about how you don't see your doctor, your midwife or OB for six weeks. Six weeks is a long time to leave someone who just had a baby. Yeah, and figure it out for themselves. Right. And the pediatrician doesn't care how you're feeling? No. They care about the baby. Yeah, exactly. I love that idea of having a shower. So if anybody out there and they are going to a baby shower, or I would highly recommend that you advocate like where are we putting the doula donation? Yeah, I'm seeing that more and more as a gift. I think it's actually a good idea. Ask your friends or your niece or are you? Are you having a doula? Because I'd like to contribute? Yeah, you know, even a little any amount of money. We need or anything, right? I had a family recently. She her daughter was pregnant, and she gifted me as a Christmas present. Yeah. And then I was there for all three of her babies. I was the gift every time. Yeah, no, Amy, you can't have come over. You want me to make a sandwich? Or take a nap? I want it melted Marie. Okay, I can do whatever you need. Well, I take my mouse. Yeah. Magical, right? It has. It does. And, you know, there's nothing selfish, there's nothing lazy. There's nothing now or already a terrible mother on day one that goes along with tape being taken care of being taken care of. You just nailed that. That's right. And you know, what people don't understand is, look, our bodies are pretty amazing, right? They grow another organ to stay in life and a little baby. And then what happens in that the placenta holes, all of these increase in hormones in our body. And when we have a baby, the placenta is released. And all of those hormones go out of your body. So it's like your body. You know, the hormones are like on the edge of a cliff and it's like, they just get toppled over. That is what we're feeling. That's why we have these ups and downs, we cry, we're happy. And we're trying to figure out am I okay? Is this normal? And it's important to have someone there to say yes, this is all normal or normalized Right? Or even say go to Mary and say I need to ask my doctor about this. What are the questions? Yes, I give the language that you can bring to your doctor. I give a lot I'll be like actually, why don't you ask the doctor this this and this I would love the love Yeah, yeah, I need a menopause doula. Mary what I do say to you, oh, girl, life. I love it. We offer so many things right labor, postpartum education, breastfeeding support, free new moms group prenatal yoga, fitness classes. And I always say if we don't have it, tell me and I'll create So okay, back at menopause, imagine that right? It's like, I totally want an extension. It was like every question that you asked, like, I was, like covered in hives, I had other stuff. I'm like, Can this be related? And everyone's like, I don't know, maybe, right? Medical answer. That's not. That's not helping me. See, and we just had a client who called and she was like, I'm noticing this in my baby's mouth. And on my breast, is that normal? And then we get on a FaceTime with her, we see what's going on. We say, actually, it could be this, this and this. What Why don't you give your doctor a call? And ask them for an antibody? Like we're giving the language and giving the options so that I mean, how powerful is that? Right? So person calls and says, I would like this, this and this. And they have the language. Yeah, exactly. I usually call the doctor like, I don't know what's happened. Help me. And they're like, I don't know what. Yeah, and we help like figure things out. Is this normal? Should I call my doctor? Now? What are some of the options that I can do? Like? That is what we're there for? I mean, and, you know, that's just, I mean, that just changes your overall experience, even on the other side, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Are there any situations with clients in birthing that you wouldn't accept as a client? Like? Yeah, that's a great question. I'm really the only way that I wouldn't accept a client is if they were having a planned unassisted home birth. Because I think that's not the safest or the best idea. What I mean by that is, so some people, there's multiple ways you where you can have your baby, you can have your baby at home, with a home birth, a certified someone who is an actual home birth, right? home birth midwife, you can have your baby in a hospital, with an OB GYN or midwife. And you can have your baby at a birth center with usually midwives. But some people if they're planning on having their baby at home with no medical provider, and a provider is either an OB or a midwife. If they're having that kind of scenario, I will not be there because that is not safe. Okay? Because I'm non medical, right? So remember, a doula is non medical. But we are trained in the anatomy and physiology of labor and birth and can help navigate those things. We know about medical interventions and options and things like that. So a guide, an advocate, a support person, a coach. Yeah, it's like a bill. Yeah. Give me a built in mom. I showed it cry on. Yeah, that's what I'm here for. Mary. Good hug. You do girl I give good. Hi. Yeah, hi there, like, give me a Mary. Hi. And that's all it takes, right? It's just like, again, that person, you can lean on the person that you can count on, you know, the person that maybe you don't want to share something with your partner, if you have one or a family member, you know, we you can come at me with anything. And I will not blink, I will not shutter I will not, it doesn't faze me, I'm not going to judge you. I want to help you. And so that's what you know, that's what delivering it is looking at someone through a lens of love and support and not through judgment. So you're really looking through discernment. How discerning how I can best help them. That's right. Right, which sits on love. Yeah, so what's like the craziest story like, what what is someone asked you to do that you're like, This is different, but I'm going to help them. Yeah, um, I have some crazy stories. I've you know, I've attended over 800 births. So I've seen a lot. You know, I think, here's a good story. So this little baby's name, and I'm allowed to say the name, so it's fine. This little baby's name is Sam. And this was a client who was having her baby, it was not her first baby. We had talked in the afternoon, and she was feeling a little quote unquote, crampy. And I was like, Okay, great. Like, alright, do X, Y, and Z, let's check back in a couple of hours. And that's the beauty about a doula is like, the first whatever you feel in your body, you call me. And then we keep doing this constant checks, like, and then I tell you what to do next, and I tell you when to call the doctor, right? So it's this constant support. So I said, Okay, great. You know, I'm gonna do this and this and it was the summer was a beautiful day. I'd like a sundress and flip flops on. And I said, Great, I'll talk to you in a couple of hours. And the plan was for me to come in labor at home with them because that's an option if they want. So think about that. When you first have a baby and you feel the first something, the Inkling is to go right to the hospital. While you have your doula Though who can navigate that. And I can even come to the house and labor with you until it's time to transition to the hospital. So that was the plan. So it's only like, an hour and a half later. And all of a sudden, the dad calls. And at this time, I had brought my little one too. She's a dancer to the dance recital practice. And I'm in the auditorium and the dad calls and says, things are moving way quicker than they were a little while ago. And I said, Okay, great. Let me step outside, hold on a text my husband, you got to come relieve, get the kid. That was our plan. And I step outside and I start walking to my car, I have my Doula clothes in the car. And I can hear her in the background. And there's a certain sound that I also look for as a doula. There's sounds there's patterns, right? And I'm like, oh, okay, I think you need to get in the car, to the hospital. And I say it very calmly, right? Because that's, that's my job, right? I'm on that grounding, calming force. And I said, Okay, I think you need to get in the car and head to the hospital. I'm gonna head there now to and I'm calculating the time, we'll get there about the same time. And he says, Well, wait, wait, wait, you said you were going to come to the house. And I said, Well, there's really no time to come to the house. I'm not even changing my dress. Yeah. And I looked at my flip flops. And I said, I will meet you at the hospital. Great. So I get in the car. And we get in the hospital, and I'm calling them on the ride and listening to her and talking her through each contraction. You know, you're doing so great job. I'm keeping them calm. And all of a sudden, he's like, we're pulling up to the hospital. I said, Great. Me too. So they pull up at one entrance, and I'm at the other. And I'm running down the hall because I know things are moving fast. And he's pushing her down the hall in the wheelchair and we meet, we're at opposite hallways, we meet at the elevator together at the same time. And I say hi. You know, I'm like, try to catch my breath to be calm. I was just like running. I'm not a runner running is not my friend. And I'm like, Hi, we're doing so great. Okay, we're gonna go upstairs. We're in the elevator. She's really progressing. We get in the hospital, in the hospital room, but labor and delivery. And I have my clothes. And my son dresses, my flip flops. And she gets on the hospital bed. And the nurse says, Okay, well, I got a check you and she was like, I can't sit down. I can't lay down like she's doing her thing. She's doing beautifully and amazing. And there's a bathroom behind me. And I'm standing in the doorway of the bathroom in front of me is the labor and delivery bed and the nurse and the dad. And I said I'm just gonna change real quick. And I put one foot back into the bathroom. And I shut the door and I hear her mouth. And she really needs me. I'm like, okay, crap. And I care about the dress. I come out of the bathroom. I'm dressed. But I have one flip flop and one sneaker on. No one knows this. But me. Yeah. And so I walk over to the hospital bed, I put my hand on her lower back as you're doing a good job. And the nurse says, well, let's see what's going on. Because now she's on her knees upright facing the back of the bed and she can't do anything else. But that position. So the nurse pulls down her pants. And there's a baby's head. And his name is Sammy. So we call him Sam EPS, like his whole head was out. She kept saying my baby's coming. And I was like this baby is common. And so Sammy pants was born in the pants. That was three minutes after we wheeled into the hospital. I just got chills. And to this day, we call them Sammy pants. We laugh about it. And then I'm helping her with breastfeeding and we're doing all this stuff and all sudden she looks over and she goes Do you have one foot? And I'm like, I do we just laugh about it to this day. But yeah, you know things happen. And that is not the norm that was not a first time mom but yeah, you know things crazy things happen. You just have to go with it. Yeah, to go with whatever is happening. I love that story. Yeah, I can't believe his little head was his whole head. I was like Sammy pants born in the pants. I had a home birth once to where the midwife didn't make it. Wow, that was yeah, it was or Yeah, but everything was fine. And I was like, you know, in my head. I'm like, saying explicit lives in my head like, Oh, crap, crap, crap. And in jazz, like, what are we doing? I'm like, everything's fine. So that's like the joke I say with everyone. Like, everything is fine. Yup, you're doing great. And in my head. I was like, I don't know what you know. Yeah. But everything was about Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that was meant to be Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love Beautify. No. So beautiful. Yeah. So Mari how to People get in touch with you if they're looking to talk with you about becoming a doula yeah they you know I'm also doula trainer that's another hat I was forget to say I do a lot of things right train the doulas if you want to learn this yeah got Mary Yeah, we do monthly trainings to train tools and this is this is actually a great time to be getting into doula work for someone who wants to you know, this pandemic has brought brought so many things and I think a lot of people have shifted what they're doing. And a lot of them a lot more people want to become doulas. So, you know if they want to talk to me about that they can I do doula trainings monthly. But if anyone wants to find me if you're on Instagram, you can find me at just like they did. Just find me at the Boston doula. And you can also find me at Boston birth associates. And we do free consultation so we can talk to anybody just even thinking, you know, they're not sure even what kind of class to take or help will help you with anything. That's great. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming, Laurie, and thank you, everyone, for listening. We hope you found this enlightening. Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast. We can be found wherever you get your podcasts. And if you would share with a friend how much you're enjoying our podcasts we would appreciate that as well. Yes, and we're on Instagram at spill the ginger tea podcast. So if you have any questions or comments or ideas for future shows, please please write us there. And you can find me Angel Amy at my angel ami.com I am on Facebook and Instagram at Angel ami 1123 And until next time, be well